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Soul Good Top 10 (November 2004) | 24 comments (24 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

WOW! (none / 0) (#8)
by DB on Fri Dec 3rd, 2004 at 03:49:38 PM CST
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Having taken in both sides of this debate i felt compelled to comment. I make no bones about the fact that i am an amatuer and hopefully somewhere in transition from being "that person crying out for Call on Me" and the one who leaves the club appreciating what they have just witnessed. How can we further educate the crowd? The answer is, we can't. But if we can continue to forge ahead there will be more people like myself seeing the many aspects of this art and appreciating them for what they are.

"the quality of a good DJ is not so much what they play, but rather how they play their tracks. Anyone can learn to mix or play tracks one after the other; a good DJ though mixes or arranges tracks creatively and intelligently"

A SMOOTH SEA NEVER MADE A SKILLED MARINER! Those who continue to play uninspired cheeze, tracks they can rely on will never really develop. Those putting the newest, edgiest tracks to the people on the dance floor will not get the morons asking for 'I am the 1' jumping up and down and screaming for me immediately, but over time... who is the real winner?

Not unlike wine, you must first educate the palate, this takes time... Why do you think most people by Jacobs Creek??? Because it does not challenge you. But there are some out there who crave a challenge... It's up to you Bill, Ben, JW, Mobin, Crispian to provide that.

DB
a.k.a DIESEL

What's Goin' On 'Ere ay? (none / 0) (#9)
by bill fragos on Fri Dec 3rd, 2004 at 04:47:40 PM CST
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Much respect to all the comments!

It's obvious that I wouldn't "rate" DJs in the same way you do Ben. I don't think it's something capable of analysis to the extent or in the way you have put forward. For me it's really about a vast number of things but at the same time one thing.

As for a Ben James chart, well, I sense you fear people turning around and saying: "it's old". Who cares? It's about what you like at a certain time and informing and promoting that to others for their benefit and for your benefit. To me, a chart assists in what I raised above regarding "identity". There are also several examples of where I have charted tracks that have been out a while, where I have "revisited" them and started liking them more eg Jon Cutler "Runnin" (Debut on SoulGood in Oct but charted Nov), Hool vs Bruckheimer "In the Beginning", Superchumbo "Dirty Filthy" etc.

Regarding avoiding requests, let's just say I don't play where you play : ). Some venues and nights are conducive to being interrupted by others, especially when one considers the way the venue/console is physically set up. No person can force you to play at a venue where this happens (if you are bothered by it). If you don't like it then stop playing at those venues where it happens. Or alternatively, have a word with owners, promoters, DJs, security and "clubbers" about it and feel out what they think. My preferred alternative is to promote oneself and invite one's own "crew" to performances.

As to analysing the "intelligence" of an audience: the reason why I have placed in quotes (both here and above) is because I believe it's preferable to view the situation in terms of appreciation (You'll also see this in my previous post) and purpose. The answer for me comes back to promoting oneself and identifying with people. Being a DJ (to me) is more than playing records, entertaining people, connecting with them and mutual appreciation and respect. There is a significant level of promotion involved that comes with the territory. This way, those who identify will hopefully come to venues. I don't think it's entirely beneficial to constantly second-guess whether people are "intelligent enough" or capable of appreciating what one plays or is about to play. There will inevitably be an element of "feeling" the crowd and the environment that's generated, but not to the extent of "analysing" the crowd. For me, an important thing is to put "identity" and "soul" into the music. To other DJs, this answer will be different, as their reasons for DJing and what they want to achieve in their performances is different. It's all good.

In response to DB, as I reiterate, I don't oppose the fact that they are a DJs who play "popular" tracks; it allows me to be noticed by others. But I will say that anyone can mix records starting from the last breakdown (or 8/16/24/32 bars after) and then bring in the next track with the bass cut out and then slowly bring it up etc then dropping into the first breakdown of the next track. On several levels I would have less appreciation for an "underground" DJ who follows the standard formula compared to a DJ who plays more "popular" tracks but who key mixes, who plays dubs and accapellas of multiple tracks at the same time who works the crowd and works the tracks they play. (Hope that gives you something to think about).

By the way Crispian, I don't disrespect some other DJs for the "popular" tracks they play; I disrespect them as some of those DJs are tools : D

[ Parent ]

Ahh.. (none / 0) (#12)
by Ben James on Fri Dec 3rd, 2004 at 09:04:55 PM CST
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"No person can force you to play at a venue where this happens (if you are bothered by it). If you don't like it then stop playing at those venues where it happens."

I guess it's a case of whether I dislike those times enough compared to the time when the crowd is up for anything and in the groove. Sure no one can force me to play...

Anyway good thoughts - keep them rolling in and I'll catch y'all soon.

I'm off to get blinder than a skunk with no eyes in a house with no lights.

Ben James.

[ Parent ]

Point of order... (none / 0) (#11)
by Ben James on Fri Dec 3rd, 2004 at 08:58:30 PM CST
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Re: "How can we further educate the crowd? The answer is, we can't."

I think that's false, from my personal experience anyway. I've first hand seen the same partygoers go from not feeling certain tastes and vibes to really getting in to them...

Some have been friends and some haven't.

And personally, I've been educated, and I make up the crowd.

DB - you saying you haven't had your ears opened to accept new sounds over the past few years, or even few months?

Re "Not unlike wine, you must first educate the palate, this takes time..." Didn't you say you can't educate?

Ben James.

[ Parent ]

rebuttal (none / 0) (#13)
by DB on Sat Dec 4th, 2004 at 02:39:57 PM CST
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Yes Ben, your comments are justifiable. Yes, i have had my ears opened in recent times to new sounds, as have you.

"The Crowd" is a generic term. "The Crowd" is not made up of the same individuals every week [although you could argue in some cases] but moreover it is made up of the same stereotype. It is this MAJORITY the we can not educate. There is a MINORITY that there is hope for, but for the most part, the crowd can not be educated. Simply look to the SoulGood poll for answers... 40% of respondants said it was most important whether they had anything to wear whilst 15% of respondents commented that the DJ/Music was their #1 priority.

Hope to see you tonight mate... i was stunned to recieve your SMS this morning... i was just waking up LOL!!!

[ Parent ]

My name is The Count.... (none / 0) (#14)
by bill fragos on Sat Dec 4th, 2004 at 07:18:12 PM CST
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err DB, according to the current poll, if you add "DJ" and "Music" together you get 45%, which is in excess of the 40% "nothing to wear"... ; )

[ Parent ]

Minus... (none / 0) (#15)
by Ben James on Sat Dec 4th, 2004 at 08:30:39 PM CST
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Minus the people who selected 'anything to wear' as a joke...

Ben James.

[ Parent ]

Thoughts on this... (none / 0) (#16)
by Jon Whiley on Sun Dec 5th, 2004 at 04:51:38 AM CST
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Hi Guys, just something slightly different... the discussion above mentioned new music. How does everyone feel about new releases that ultimately end up as 'popular' tunes.
An example might be Lola's Theme, which has been absolutely massive cross-over tune, gets cained on every radio station, yet nearer the beginning of the year I'm sure every 'underground' DJ was after it.
I personally still love it, and still play it. Does anyone out there avoid it like the plague now, and if so, how did they feel about it when it first came out...

[ Parent ]

Hot Potatos (none / 0) (#17)
by crispian on Sun Dec 5th, 2004 at 01:00:19 PM CST
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That's a really interesting point Jon. I've seen many, many tunes which Bill has really enjoyed and rinsed knowing that at some point these tunes are going to hit big. It's enjoyable to me to see a crowd's reaction to a tune which has that appeal, but they don't yet know what it is.

My personal opinion is that once these tunes hit, you shouldn't play them anymore. Once every DJ knows that they work, there's just no point. All you're going to end up doing is rinsing someone out, or getting rinsed yourself. Like last night, someone played 'Flashdance' right before Bill's set. Then the next guy dropped it straight afterwards. Now should the second guy have been hanging around two hours before his set to make sure nobody played his tunes? Probably not. But should he have been able to guess that someone's already played one of the biggest tunes?

In my opinion there's two areas of focus for DJs in terms of picking tunes - concentrating on what's big now and watching what's coming in next and getting prepared. In reality every DJ has elements of both, and it's up to you to work out what your own ratio is. Just don't be surprised when you drop 'The BOMB record'(tm) and get a strange reaction from the crowd - they may have just heard it an hour ago.

[ Parent ]

Top Choons of 2004 (none / 0) (#18)
by bill fragos on Sun Dec 5th, 2004 at 03:49:46 PM CST
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By the way, this is probably a good opportunity to let you know that soon on SoulGood there's going to be a top 30 or so choons of 2004 special. I am sure "Lola's Theme" will be in there, as will "Flashdance". There'll be a post soon giving more details.

As for playing choons that have become "popular" my attitude is if you actually still like playing that track and the crowd will enjoy it then play it. The concern for me is when one doesn't really enjoy the track but plays it anyway as it is a surebet to get a reaction.

The following quote cited in the SoulGood April 2004 chart may assist and is on point:
"For every cheesy commercial DJ who's happy to play what the record pluggers send him, who charts records he doesn't like just so he stays on the mailing list, who plays records he hates because everyone else is playing them, and who has no problem with a club giving him 'guidelines' on what and what not to play, there's another DJ who loves music, who searches out and buys records rather than just playing promotional freebies, who develops his own style, who throws his own parties, who generates his own following, who creates new music".

--Last Night A DJ Saved My Life - The History Of The Disc Jockey by Bill Brewster and Frank Broughton (Grove Press New York) pg 408

Oh and I'm still waiting for DB to withdraw his rebuttal that people are beyond salvation.... From my experiences with people I don't believe it to be true at all. I am happy to explain why, but I don't think it is necessary in light of my above posts.

[ Parent ]

Aye and Nay and Yay. (none / 0) (#19)
by Ben James on Sun Dec 5th, 2004 at 04:09:02 PM CST
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Aye : As I said earlier I agree, people are not beyond salvation. From what I can gather Bill had listeners asking for it...leading to Soul Generation.

Nay : As for the quote from Last Night A DJ Saved My Life re: the two different DJs contrasted in the quote - do you think for every of the former kind of DJ theres equal numbers of the latter? I would have thought there's quite a few more of the former DJs and less of the latter DJs.

Yay : "As for playing choons that have become "popular" my attitude is if you actually still like playing that track and the crowd will enjoy it then play it."

I like that comment and attitude, and I don't think you can really fault this point.

Thoughts?

Ben James.

[ Parent ]

QUITE (none / 0) (#20)
by Jon Whiley on Sun Dec 5th, 2004 at 08:45:32 PM CST
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Yes I think people can be 'helped', I prefer to describe it as showing them what they don't know they already like, or giving them another format that they can relate to more easily.

The quote from 'Last Night A DJ Saved My Life' (wow, someone else has this?!) I think aims to illustrate the two forms of DJ, as opposed to suggesting a 50/50 split. That said, I agree, there must be far more of the former. If only for the fact that there is a much larger audience to satisfy (or make money from, says the cynic in me). After all, 'popular' music is just that.

JW

[ Parent ]

Soul Good Top 10 (November 2004) | 24 comments (24 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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